First Aid Draft 1

HLTAID009 Provide cardiopulmonary resuscitation Draft 1 Aug 19

Please scroll down to review the various sections of this document. You can leave a comment by clicking on .
You can choose to be notified when someone else comments by clicking on
You can unsubscribe from notifications by clicking on

Unit application and prerequisites

UNIT CODE

HLTAID009

UNIT TITLE

Provide cardiopulmonary resuscitation

APPLICATION

This unit describes the skills and knowledge required to perform cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) in line with the Australian Resuscitation Council (ARC) Guidelines.

 

This unit applies to all persons who may be required to provide CPR, in a range of situations, including community and workplace settings.

 

Specific licensing/regulatory requirements relating to this competency, including requirements for refresher training should be obtained from the relevant national/state/territory Work Health and Safety Regulatory Authorities.

PREREQUISITE UNIT

Nil

UNIT SECTOR

First Aid

29 Comments

Application Section

"Inconsistency: Why does HLTAID009, 10 & 11 state this unit applies to all PERSONS who may be ….. And HLTAID012, 14, 15, 16 states WORKERS?"

Sue Hurdle 09.09.2019 02.20PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

First Aider Shock

"No course thus far mentions that state of shock that a first aider may go into. To truly prepare someone for a first aid scenario should we not include recognition of shock in oneself and ensure people call first to gain assistance if needed? People will then recognise the need to train to automaticity (by repetition) and learn the fundamentals thoroughly."

Sam Kerridge 25.08.2019 10.31PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

6 Replies

"This is not "shock", this is an emotional response/distress. "Shock" is a clinical condition caused by a relative or absolute loss of circulating blood volume."

Simon Gould 26.08.2019 08.30AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Hi Sam, what you are describing is not shock, you are describing a stress reaction which may cause shock as detailed below and it is covered by PC 4.1. Shock is the bodies reaction to a lack of oxygen in the tissues. This can be caused by blood loss (hypovolemic shock), infections/poisoning (toxic shock), poor heart function ie heart disease (cardiogenic shock), mental health reasons for lack of oxygen ie hyperventilating, holding breath (psychogenic Shock), lack of oxygen getting to the lungs ie choking, asthma or high altitude (hypoxic Shock). Shock is one of the biggest conditions that is taught incorrectly as people do not understand what it is. So here it is: “Shock is the bodies reaction to a lack of oxygen within the tissues.” That simple. "

Peter Allan 26.08.2019 09.14AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Your describing Hypovolemic Shock, I agree Sam is describing a stress reaction but the basic definition of shock is “the bodies reaction to correct a lack of oxygen to the tissues” it has many causes including loss of circulating blood volume, but can also be caused by reduced cardiac output, poisoning, high altitudes with reduced oxygen, mental health conditions plus many other causes. "

Peter Allan 26.08.2019 09.21AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Fully aware of the definition of shock Pete. I am not sure that Sam does however. The misuse of the term is endemic in BLS training in the sector. Every vaso-vagal is hypovolaemic shock and every distressed person has a life threatening condition."

Simon Gould 26.08.2019 10.35AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"I know you are Simon and agree that the term is misused all the time. "

Peter Allan 26.08.2019 11.24AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Fully agree"

Wayne Christiansen 06.09.2019 04.26PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Codes Change

""I agree, why confuse people and add costs to a business by changing the code, ridiculous. by all means review but put the proposed changes out there to the people who present the courses and interact with the trainees""

Robert J Marmont 25.08.2019 12.27PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Code Change

"I understand that it has been said that the code change MUST happen and is a choice by another section of the industry but we are shooting ourselves in the foot as far as as respect within the community as a whole. In WA we are always getting employers say the staff must get Senior First Aid and question the certificates students receive. Confusion is rife and people do not change easily. Add yet another code change instead of a version number and we just add to the chaos. And that doesn't even to begin to mention what each and every training provider has to do for compliance of materials. Can we please focus on being able to provide good quality training. "

Kathy Hawke 22.08.2019 02.59PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

1 Reply

"Agree why Cant we have Simple CPR , FIRST AID ADVANCED FIRST AID, ADVANDED RES and so on just have version Control on the Document , How many people ring an Book to do a HLTAID 003 Course"

Wayne Christiansen 18.09.2019 03.29PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Why another code change

"I can't see any reason to changes codes. Someone from Skills IQ please tell us all why they think it is necessary to change codes. "

Jason Taylor 21.08.2019 08.39PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

2 Replies

"Hi Jason this is normal policy and a requirement NSSC - Training Package Products Policy Units of competency – coding maintenance Training Package developers must observe the following when making any changes to units of competency post endorsement: • For ISC Upgrades such as minor typographical changes, do not change the code. • For NSSC Endorsement Required changes assign a new code and change the title. Information can be found here https://docs.employment.gov.au/system/files/doc/other/training20package20products20policy.pdf "

Gary Dunshea 22.08.2019 10.35AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Gary Whilst i am happy with what you replied with as mentioned in the Melbourne face face Why not assign the unit with a 1 in front eg HLTAID013 is the current Hltaid003 "

Brendan Neale 02.09.2019 04.23PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Element 2

"Performance Criteria 2.2 and 2.4 are exactly the same"

Margot Hurrell 19.08.2019 12.11PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

1 Reply

"Lack of proof reading prior to release of the draft. Not a good start by them is it Margot. "

Jason Taylor 21.08.2019 07.41PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

HLTAID001

"Wanting to change to HLTAID009 seems a stretch of unnecessary, I mean wow, I am only a trainer/assessor but 1 is the start to me, especially when it is the basic course to get every one involved in First Aid. Back in the 80's when many kids were drowning in pools, the society/community wanted to know what can we do, we are here in the place before ambo's arrived,yet people didn't know what to do. Loury Lawrence started the kids alive,all to bring up knowledge of the public all ages to prolong life.So lets do First Aid 001 start to provide or prolong life until help arrives. Lets keep the basic course at 001 and as skills increase then the codes increase 003 then 006 then, what ever. Just a simple trainer but passionate. Matt Hook "

Matthew Hook 16.08.2019 05.25PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

3 Replies

"Agree, changing the codes only leads to confusion."

Robert J Marmont 25.08.2019 12.24PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Agree how long Did we have Senior first aid before some idiot Want to change it"

Wayne Christiansen 06.09.2019 04.29PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"At least here in NSW, the term Senior First Aid hasn't actually been used for well over 20 years in the workplace. Prior to the units coming under VETAB, WORKCOVER NSW controlled accreditation of first aid training and the course was called First Aid, not Senior First Aid. WorkCover was actually quite precious about the name of the course and did not like it when it was call Senior......."

Adrian Date 09.09.2019 10.01AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Same codes

"Please leave the code unchanged for the published version .... please ... "

Greg James 12.08.2019 02.40PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

1 Reply

"Lets call a duck a duck First aid, Cpr and so on no will ring you and ask to do HLTAID003 course Version control the Document not the Course Number"

Wayne Christiansen 18.09.2019 03.33PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Change of code

"Agree that the change of code will create confusion. There is no significant changes to the application of this unit to warrant a change of code. Overall there has been no changes and has only had words substituted and sentences reorganised to make it sound different. There is no "

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 05.01AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

2 Replies

"Hi Peter unfortunately the decision about code change are beyond the control of First Aid IRC or SSO's, and are a requirement of training package development set out by the NSSC in the Training Package Products Policy document"

Gary Dunshea 12.08.2019 08.52AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Sick of all this, leave the code as HLTAID001 there is nothing wrong with the content."

Lyn Southerden 14.08.2019 11.56AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Unit name and codes

"There appears to be no change that would require the code changing hence causing RTO great expense to change marketing material as well as educating the clients and students. There is not sufficient changes to justify a difference, I would suggest that by continuing with the existing code would help industry and would not require changing documents such as the First Aid Code of Practice. Please consider keeping the existing codes eg HLTAID001 etc"

Jim Allen 08.08.2019 07.07PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

3 Replies

"I agree, why confuse people and add costs to a business by changing the code, ridiculous. by all means review but put the proposed changes out there to the people who present the courses and interact with the trainees"

John Herrity 08.08.2019 07.40PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"The change of code always has an impact on other documents. Several training packages still refer to HLTAID311A. By changing this code again will create a larger redundancy problem and confusion to the general public and industry. For training organisations the change in codes has a financial impact which for a unit that has had no changes apart from a person changing a few words will cost millions of dollars to industry. All company SOP's for first aid requirements will need to be updated. Advertising materials will need updating, web sites updating, all these cost money. Making the codes start at 009 will also make people believe that a 009 unit is higher than a 007 unit, which is dangerously incorrect."

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 01.06PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"I agree with the comments of Jim Allen and the comment and reply by Peter Allan and John Herrity. The changes are minor and people in the community are confused enough with, Level 2, Apply first aid and Provide first aid, without changing unit numbers for no gain to anyone. "

Paull Ziegeler 10.08.2019 02.55PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Elements and performance criteria

ELEMENTS

PERFORMANCE CRITERIA

Elements describe the essential outcomes

Performance criteria describe the performance needed to demonstrate achievement of the element.

  1. Respond to an emergency situation.
    1. Recognise an emergency situation.
    2. Ensure safety for self, victim and bystanders.
    3. Assess the victim and recognise the need for CPR.
    4. Assess the situation and seek assistance from emergency response services.
  1. Perform CPR procedures.
    1. Perform cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) in accordance with the ARC Guidelines.
    2. Display respectful behaviour towards victim.
    3. Operate an automated external defibrillator (AED) according to manufacturer’s instructions.
    4. Display respectful behaviour towards victim.
  1. Communicate details of the incident.
    1. Accurately convey incident details to emergency response services.
    2. Report details of incident in line with workplace procedures.
    3. Maintain privacy and confidentiality of information in line with statutory and/or organisational policies.
  1. Evaluate the incident and own performance.
    1. Recognise the possible psychological impacts on self and other rescuers and seek help when required
    2. Review the first aid response provided

25 Comments

CPR

"Why are you changing the title numbers"

John Aagten 19.09.2019 06.58PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Using the term victim

"I'd like to see the word casualty kept. Not every person who needs assistance is a victim. Also performance criteria 2.2 & 2.4 are the same"

Joanne Goodwin 17.09.2019 08.52PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

1 Reply

"Absolutely agree. The word 'victim' implies some sort of crime has been committed. 'Casualty' or 'patient' much better suited. "

Miriam Troy 20.09.2019 11.00AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Use of the term victim

"The term victim is very negative, casualty is more prescriptive. "

Sue Hurdle 09.09.2019 02.30PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Elements 1.2

"When did the order of safety change I always thought it was Self first Bystander second then the Victim, causality or Patient "

wayne Snell 24.08.2019 02.53AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

2 Replies

"Agree. Self "First", Bystander second, we don't need more casualties, then the actual "casualty" if it is safe to do so."

Robert J Marmont 25.08.2019 12.31PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"I agree, that has always been the order and it really needs to stay that way."

Liz Boston 25.08.2019 11.15PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Use of the term Victim

"I feel this is a backward step - can we please go back to using the term casualty - victim is almost demeaning."

Liz Boston 19.08.2019 05.11PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

1 Reply

"Agree."

Robert J Marmont 25.08.2019 12.31PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

CPR on the Floor

"I note several pieces of feedback highlighting the continued need to demonstrate CPR on the floor. Healthcare Professionals including Doctors, Nurses and Paramedics are frequently conducting CPR on a bed. The performance criteria continues to require CPR to be demonstrated on the floor however the Assessment Conditions state "Skills must be demonstrated working individually in an environment that provides realistic in-depth, industry-validated scenarios and simulations to assess candidates’ skills and knowledge." This contradicts the performance evidence as Healthcare Professionals most frequently conduct CPR on a bed. By enforcing the performance criteria, the assessment conditions are not met and vice versa. The need to deliver CPR on the floor should be removed. "

Stephen van Gerwen 15.08.2019 10.19AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

5 Replies

"hopefully if enough people out there push for this it will happen. Obviously there is someone that is, for whatever reason, passionate about keeping it on the floor but anyone with real experience, i think will agree, that the requirement should be removed. "

Adrian Date 15.08.2019 10.23AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"I would argue that the majority of people completing this unit aren't working in healthcare. The 'realistic' scenario for the majority would require CPR on the ground."

Natalie Middleton 16.08.2019 01.55PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"This would be dependent on your client base for delivery. I have a high amount of health workers in my client base and where other trainers will have none. The assessment ‘like all of the rest of the VET sector’ needs to have reasonable adjustments to contextualise the assessment to the clients. I am not saying all assessment are up off the floor. Most of mine will remain in the floor as that is the context my students will be in, as you said, but to have the restriction of everyone to do it on the floor is actually going against the whole change that occurred in the TAE. Ie contextualised assessments and training. "

Peter Allan 16.08.2019 02.16PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"In a clinical situation a backboard is used beneath a patient on a bed or the beds are designed to perform CPR on. Often the clinician also stands on a stool to ensure adequate height over the patient. In a non-clinical situation where a person is on a soft mattress etc it will compromise compressions. Out of the clinical environment CPR ideally should be performed on the floor ie a hard surface to ensure adequate compression depth, not just to avoid a soft surface underneath the casualty, but so the person delivering CPR is using their entire body (rather than upper body if mannikin is on a table) to slow fatigue. In the assessment situation, I think the ideal is on the floor, however if a person does not have the physical ability to demonstrate skills on the floor, contextualisation may be applicable. "

Sarah Hunstead 20.08.2019 01.32PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"I agree as does the ARC"

Adrian Date 22.08.2019 09.33AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

wording

"If we are training to the ARC Guidelines, then the wording and terminology should be consistent"

Patricia Heumiller 12.08.2019 12.06PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

1 Reply

"agreed "

Liz Boston 25.08.2019 11.15PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Element 2

"2.2 and 2.4 are the same. Also as per others the word victims should be patients. "

Patricia Heumiller 12.08.2019 12.04PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

1 Reply

"I agree. No Healthcare Professional would ever refer to their Patient as a victim. Yet the ARC and ILCOR insist on doing this. These organisations are comprised predominantly by Doctors and Nurses. "

Stephen van Gerwen 15.08.2019 10.21AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Element 4

"The performance criteria for Element four would be improved by tighter prescription. I suggest: 4.1 Conduct Debrief; 4.2 Recognise signs and symptoms of the psychological impacts of trauma; 4.3 Seeking or referring to help."

David Gordon 12.08.2019 12.30AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Victim or Patient?

"I note the change from 'Casualty' in the current Units to 'Victim' in these drafts. Patients are only occasionally victims, sometimes casualties, but always patients."

David Gordon 11.08.2019 11.44PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Element 4

"Previously Element 4 was covered by Knowledge Evidence previously. By adding the 4th element complicates the unit beyond the application of performing CPR. "

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 12.58PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

PC

"The use of the word victim implies the casualty has been involved in a criminal situation. The use of casualty is much better. PC2.4 is a copy of PC2.2."

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 05.08AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

2 Replies

"Agree with above not sure why the wording needs to be changed "

Michael Stanley 09.08.2019 08.38AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Incorrect Terminology - Victim is a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action. A person with an illness is not a victim. "

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 12.55PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Foundation skills

FOUNDATION SKILLS

Foundation skills essential to performance are explicit in the performance criteria of this unit of competency.

UNIT MAPPING INFORMATION

No equivalent unit.

LINKS            

Companion Volume Implementation Guide

1 Comments

Equivalent

"The current HLTAID001 unit currently meets the requirements of this unit, even the reworded Knowledge Evidence into PC. There is no changes. They are equivalent"

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 01.01PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Performance evidence

TITLE

Assessment Requirements for HLTAID009 Provide cardiopulmonary resuscitation

PERFORMANCE EVIDENCE

Evidence of the ability to complete tasks outlined in elements and performance criteria of this unit in the context of the job role

There must be evidence that the candidate has completed the following tasks in line with state/territory regulations, first aid codes of practice, Australian Resuscitation Council (ARC) Guidelines and workplace procedures:

  • Followed DRSABCD in line with ARC guidelines, including:
    • show respectful behaviour towards the victim
    • managed the unconscious, breathing victim including appropriate positioning to reduce the risk of airway compromise
    • performed at least 2 minutes of uninterrupted single rescuer cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) (5 cycles of both compressions and ventilations) on an adult or child resuscitation manikin placed on the floor
    • followed the prompts of an automated external defibrillator (AED) to deliver at least one shock
    • demonstrated a rotation of operators with minimal interruptions to compressions
    • responded appropriately in the event of regurgitation or vomiting
    • performed at least 2 minutes of uninterrupted single rescuer CPR (5 cycles both compressions and ventilations) on an infant resuscitation manikin placed on a firm surface
  • Responded to at least two simulated first aid scenarios contextualised to the candidate’s workplace/community setting, including:
    • one simulated scenario dealing with an unconscious, breathing victim
    • one simulated scenario dealing with an unconscious, non-breathing victim including the use of an AED.

32 Comments

Terminology

"The ARC now uses the term 'unresponsive', but all of the new units state 'unconscious', can we please be consistent as it states 'In line with Australian Resuscitation Council Guidelines' "

Sue Hurdle 09.09.2019 04.01PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Workplace procedures

"Many students are not aware of their specific workplace procedures. Could the wording be changed to "...and if applicable, workplace procedures.""

Sarah Hunstead 20.08.2019 02.15PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Contradiction

"why for adult or child CPR does it have to be on the floor when in the infant demonstration it is on a firm surface - this flexibility should be consistent across both lots of demonstrations - firm surface - allows for reasonable adjustment and additional training for different surface types. "

Jessica Gwynne 15.08.2019 10.58AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

CPR STANDARD

"The requirement should be for CPR not the management of an unconscious patient unless that is integrated into the post arrest management of a recovering patient. Airway management involving unconscious patients is a seperate skill set and there should be no training of finger sweep techniques on any patient."

Dr John Fahey 14.08.2019 01.22PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

CPR STANDARD

"The inclusion of a requirement to 'show respectful behaviour' towards the patient is wasting peoples time. First, this is an utterly subjective measure imposed in ignorance of what is actually occurring when rendering aid to an unconscious person in the street. The analysis of the emotional and pycho-motor activity involved clearly demonstrates that approaching the head of another person is highly intimidating and that is what is intended because the first requirement of the approach to the patient is to gain the attention of the patient. This technique, adopted from ambulance services, reflects the findings that 60% of all public collapses are emotional, psychiatric or behavioural problems and not physical. The use of intimidation quickly focusses the patient on the rescuer and then treatment commences. Under no circumstances can anyone be said to be 'respectful' when they stand above and within inches of a prone person. So, if we want a standard, then it should be to ensure as much as possible that the patient's dignity is preserved. "

Dr John Fahey 14.08.2019 01.18PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

1 Reply

"Agree. After 50 years as a paramedic I must agree with the Doctor. You need to get the casualty's / patients attention."

Robert J Marmont 25.08.2019 12.39PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

CPR REQUIREMENT

"The CPR requirement for 2 minutes of uninterrupted CPR is a serious issue if maintained. The science involved demonstrates that 2 minutes is the point of failure for the fittest participants and not for the average participant. This requirement means that we will be imposing a MAXIMUM as an AVERAGE and this means that the bulk of the population will not pass the assessment. This standard is not currently enforced and is meaningless. In professional resuscitation the two minute standard is not being achieved by experienced medical and nursing staff and is leading to a continuation of ineffective compressions as people are left on the chest for too long. The appropriate standard is for the delivery of CPR in a range of settings using a range of adaptions to meet the objective of continuous, uninterrupted and effective compressions. The current CPR requirements do not achieve this."

Dr John Fahey 14.08.2019 01.10PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

1 Reply

"Fair comment. Professional compressions are on real patients. To get to people to pass this arbitrary "2-minute" test they are assessed on unrealistic models, and this just nullifies the value of the assessment. If we drive down the standard of resus manikins (as there is no accepted standard) just to get people to "pass" a meaningless assessment we are not actually achieving competence nor training in high quality CPR."

Simon Gould 14.08.2019 01.22PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

CPR on the floor

"I also support the comments in regard to CPR on the floor assessment. In addition to the conflict with ARC guidance (mentioned elsewhere) I feel this requirement demonstrates a very poor solution to an "Inclusive Practice" problem. The way the unit is structured presents an significant access barrier to people with physical limitations (either temporary or permanent). In essence, if an individual cannot kneel on the floor for 2 minutes they are unable to obtain any form of 1st aid certification. Additionally, there is no option to contextualise this element of the assessment to cater for an individual's own circumstances. This presents a challenge to training providers who wish to offer an Inclusive learning environment and does not allow providers the opportunity to offer "reasonable adjustment" for a person with a disability. However, we do need to keep it real and I don't feel removing the physical requirements completely will address this issue; I feel it needs a more thoughtful solution.. Some thoughts -- - Structure the unit to remove barriers to people with physical disabilities - Design assessment criteria that allows Assessors to be FAIR and FLEXIBLE to the individuals circumstances at the time of assessment. - Give training providers options for people who "COULD" but would find it difficult, potentially injurious or humiliating to do it just for an assessment but would not hesitate to do that in reality - Recognise the compromising position training providers are exposed to when a person with a physical disability must be denied access to first aid certification because they 'may' be unable to perform one of a number of skills contained within the course. *** Take an Inclusive Practice approach - it is 2019 .. not 1985... we need a contemporary solution that is better than simply excluding people based on their disabilities ... "

Greg James 12.08.2019 02.31PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

5 Replies

"great response Greg. I totally agree with you. I don't know your background but mine is as an ICP and obv attended many many arrests. I can remember several where the first aider has been doing CPR ( anything is better than nothing ) and was then unable to get back up by themselves due to knee injuries. Those same knee injuries would have prevented them from successfully completing a CPR course today, which may have meant that that first aider didn't attend to someone in arrest. "

Adrian Date 14.08.2019 12.22PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"I fully agree with the comment above from Greg James. Some students choose to up skill , up date or take the opportunity to increase their skills while they are off work recovering from say a knee operation. These students can not kneel on the floor at that time but will certainly be able to get on the floor at a later date. These "CPR on the floor" rules restrict people at several levels and should be adjusted to follow ARC guidelines."

Alex van Welderen 20.08.2019 10.52AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Certainly something I have come across many times with carers (childcare and aged) where a participant is unable to do the cpr assessment after surgery without causing themselves further injury thus do not receive and recognition of their other abilities in first aid, the fact they would do anything for those in their care if it was a real situation or their many years of experience. I am certainly not saying go back to putting the manikin on a table but consider options for these situations. When first aid is a requirement of an industry, these dedicated people face unemployment. "

Kathy Hawke 22.08.2019 07.08PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Statistically speaking there are more people that die from heart attacks in shopping and on streets than do laying on a bed. And for those who are found on a bed, nine times out of ten, they are usually dead, and too late for CPR. CPR First Aid must be in a realistic environment. If you can do CPR on the floor, I am sure if the need arises, you can do CPR on the bed. If you have ever called QLD ambulance for someone who has died in their sleep, they will request that you put them on the floor when you perform CPR. You can't get much more realistic than that."

Wayne Christiansen 18.09.2019 02.29PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Too bad, so sad. Perhaps they should return when they have a medical certificate to prove they are fully fit, to perform CPR on the floor. If they have a knee injury and they do CPR on a table, they can still do a hip injury or lower back injury. It's not about making money, but looking after a student's needs and well-being."

Wayne Christiansen 18.09.2019 02.35PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

CPR demonstration on the floor

"Why have we not followed the ARC policy on CPR demonstration. The continued requirement to demonstrate on the floor in every situation is not consistent with the ARC. There should be allowance for people who "could" get on the floor in an emergency but it may cause pain or discomfort. Quote from the ARC "The ARC notes that assessment requirements for the health training package currently recommends that CPR must be demonstrated on the floor in order to deem a student competent but takes the view that this specific location is not necessary in order to demonstrate competence in the skill of CPR. The ARC specifies that learners must be able to physically demonstrate CPR skills and knowledge on a manikin. It does not specify that CPR must be demonstrated on the floor.""

Adrian Date 09.08.2019 09.42AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

9 Replies

"The additional requirement of CPR on the floor is not in line with the current ARC guidelines. CPR is done in industry in a variety of situations in the workplace that is not on the floor. Treatment room beds in medical practices, wheel chairs, ambulance stretchers, etc. By putting this requirement means that we are not training and assessing as per the ARC guidelines and restricting the amount of people trained in CPR and First Aid through out Australia. This is a bad thing. Even if a person has a permanent or temporary injury, they can be helpful in an emergency situation by advising untrained people in the correct techniques. Lets get back in line with the ARC Guidelines. "

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 12.54PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"I agree entirely with the two gentleman who have commented and replied as above. The ARC guidelines, specify that learners must be able to physically demonstrate CPR skills and knowledge on a manikin. It does not specify that CPR must be demonstrated on the floor. It must be remembered in all situations - "Any attempt at CPR is better than no attempt at all." "

Paull Ziegeler 10.08.2019 03.08PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"There is no need for "on the floor" i.e. kneeling to demonstrate CPR. Not only are there individuals with physical limitations but there are also other ways to apply compressions. The 2 minute demonstration is a moot point as there is no standardisation of manikins so I ask "2 minutes on what"? There are very few compression manikins that actually simulate adults anatomically. Contrary to the existing statements in the unit, there are no ARC standards for training manikins. Anyone, even a child" can fullill this on some of the poor quality manikins out there being used for assessments. "

Simon Gould 13.08.2019 09.06PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"agree totally re the assessment on the floor - should follow the ARC wording. I tend to disregard the importance of specific manikins though - having performed CPR on many 100's of people - they are all different and feel different when doing the compression. I really don't think the "type" of manikin matters too much"

Adrian Date 14.08.2019 12.16PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"It actually does matter. I did a research study and found only 4 Adults manikins in the world that simulate adults, most are anotomically large children at best and there are a few that are not even that. The research shows less than 50% (42-50) of the adult population (including health professionals) are able to achieve adequate compression depth on a typical adult patient...no wonder we have been using the wrong assessment tools."

Simon Gould 14.08.2019 12.25PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"mmm ill stand to agree to disagree on the manikins. People perform very differently in a real life situation than in a training scenario and their physical ability to compress a chest is very much different. In my experience, very rarely have i had to ask a first aider to compress deeper - it is more likely to be their rate that needs adjustment, not depth"

Adrian Date 15.08.2019 10.30AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"I think you may have missed the point. Without a standard (a benchmark) asking students to perform 2 minutes of CPR of an adult manikin is meaningless if they are predominantly large children anatomically (and one still in use is a small child but called an adult). Let's just say "any old manikin will do" to demonstrate any age i.e. size doesn't matter. As to your observations regarding bystander compressions depth...the research is clear. "

Simon Gould 15.08.2019 12.07PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"I use to teach peolpe in a wheel chairs to CPR from sitting in the chair but now ?"

Wayne Christiansen 06.09.2019 04.35PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"No but training .gov does"

Wayne Christiansen 18.09.2019 02.20PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Scenario

"The increase to 2 scenarios takes away the ability to run the unit holistically with the treating of a patient who initially is breathing and then stops breathing. By putting this in will inhibit the flow of treating a deteriorating patient. "

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 05.19AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

7 Replies

"great comment - very true"

Adrian Date 09.08.2019 09.29AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Currently 2 scenarios are being run, one for adult CPR and one for Infant CPR. So in reality you are now asking for 3 scenarios. The scenarios should be: one simulated scenario dealing with an unconscious breathing adult/child casualty who deteriorates and becomes a non-breathing casualty, this scenario requires the demonstration of the use of an AED. and one simulated scenario dealing with an unconscious breathing infant casualty who deteriorates and becomes a non-breathing casualty. "

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 01.12PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Change the time limit to 5 mins CPR. By doing this it will provide a better assessment of skills and will make the participant use the AED multiple times during the assessment. The assessment scenario could then change to: Unconscious not breathing casualty, commence CPR for 5 cycles, apply AED and shock patient, commence CPR for 5 cycles, reshock patient, commence CPR 2 cycles, patient regurgitates and begins breathing, position Uncon Breathing patient. "

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 01.52PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"5 mins ?? sorry but don't agree. 5 mins is physically a long time for the average person to do CPR without the assistance of that adrenaline rush they get in a real event. "

Adrian Date 14.08.2019 12.24PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Totally agree no longer can have a lesson that flows through demonstration "

Jessica Gwynne 15.08.2019 10.54AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Adrian the 5 mins is not constant compressions. It would involve the whole DRSABCD sequence. Ie Start scenario Danger Response Send for Help airway Breathing (30secs) Start CPR 2-3 cycles (60sec) Setup AED and Shock (30 secs) 2 mins of CPR (This is timed by AED with tone) Analyse Patient (No shock advised) Check Patient ABC (30 sec), Breathing with airway partially obstructed by vomit, respond to vomiting patient. (30 secs). That is a total of 5 mins for the scenario. The biggest thing I see in training is people only Shock or follow the directions of the AED once, in real life you will need to follow the directions several times. Plus this is the scenario I run in my current training with everyone. "

Peter Allan 16.08.2019 02.26PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"thats fine if the wording clearly states that type of breakdown - if it just says 5 mins then auditors will require 5 mins of compression "

Adrian Date 22.08.2019 09.40AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Knowledge evidence

KNOWLEDGE EVIDENCE

Demonstrated knowledge required to complete the tasks outlined in elements and performance criteria of this unit:

  • Guidelines and procedures including:
    • ARC Guidelines relevant to managing the unconscious victim and provision of CPR
    • Identifying potential incident hazards and minimise risks when providing first aid
    • infection control procedures, including use of standard precautions and resuscitation barrier devices
    • requirements for currency of skill and knowledge
    • first aid codes of practice
    • workplace procedures relevant to the provision of first aid
  • Legal, workplace and community considerations, including:
    • duty of care requirements
    • own skills and limitations
    • consent and how it relates to the conscious and unconscious victim
    • privacy and confidentiality requirements
    • awareness of potential need for stress management techniques and available support for rescuers
  • considerations when providing CPR, including:
    • Upper airway and effect of positional change
    • appropriate duration and cessation of CPR
    • appropriate use of an AED
    • Safety and maintenance procedures for an AED
    • chain of survival
    • how to access emergency services
  • techniques for providing CPR to adults, children and infants including:
    • How to recognise that a victim is unresponsive and not breathing normally
    • Rate, ratio and depth of compressions/ventilations
    • Correct hand positioning for compressions
    • Basic anatomy, physiology and the differences between adults, children and infants relating to CPR.

6 Comments

Controlling bleeding in cardiac arrest caused by major trauma

"The Australian and New Zealand Council on Resuscitation (ANZCOR) supports that haemorrhage control interventions should have priority over conventional cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) in situations where cardiac arrest is reasonably suspected to have been the result of a traumatic event. ANZCOR Guideline 11.10.1 relating to the ‘Management of Cardiac Arrest due to Trauma’ outlines existing recommendations for adult and paediatric patients in actual or imminent cardiac arrest due to physical trauma. The guideline can be applied by first-aiders who are suitably trained and resourced. "

A/Prof Jason Bendall 03.09.2019 12.16PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

CPR

"Can it be explained to people the requirements and reasons for maintaining perfusion to sustain compatibility with life? I teach this and it allows people to know the purpose of CPR, and the likelihood that a DEFIB will be needed, and also why not to stop perfusing"

Sam Kerridge 25.08.2019 10.27PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Basic anatomy, physiology and the differences between adults, children and infants relating to CPR.

"This MUST be in relation to CPR only for this unit. "

Sarah Hunstead 20.08.2019 02.24PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

First aid codes of practice

"Is it necessary for a student to demonstrate knowledge on the First Aid codes of practice? Does this take away from the practical aspects? How does this knowledge relate to the Elements?"

Sarah Hunstead 20.08.2019 02.23PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

ARC

"This all assumes that the ARC guidelines are evidence-based, best practice, even when contrary to the International consensus. "

Simon Gould 13.08.2019 09.08PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

1 Reply

"Best practise GUILDLINEs ?"

Wayne Christiansen 06.09.2019 04.38PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Assessment conditions

ASSESSMENT CONDITIONS

Skills must be demonstrated working individually in an environment that provides realistic in-depth, industry-validated scenarios and simulations to assess candidates’ skills and knowledge.

 

Due to the nature of this type of training, it is acceptable for the performance evidence to be collected in a simulated environment.

 

Compression and ventilation skills must be demonstrated on resuscitation manikins in line with ARC guidelines for the purpose of assessment of CPR procedures.

 

Assessment must ensure access to:

  • Adult or child resuscitation manikins in line with ARC guidelines for the purpose of assessment of CPR procedures
  • Infant resuscitation manikins in line with ARC guidelines for the purpose of assessment of CPR procedures
  • AED training device.

 

Simulated assessment environments must simulate the real-life working environment where these skills and knowledge would be performed, with all the relevant equipment and resources of that working environment.

 

Assessors must satisfy the Standards for Registered Training Organisations’ requirements for assessors, and:

  • hold one of the following or equivalent units:
    • HLTAID011 Provide First Aid
    • HLTAID012 Provide first aid in an education and care setting
    • HLTAID013 Provide first aid in remote situations
    • HLTAID014 Provide Advanced First Aid
    • HLTAID015 Provide advanced resuscitation.

LINKS

Companion Volume Implementation Guide

7 Comments

All new HLTAID untis

"it states or equivalent unit - these units are not equivalent to the old ones so are trainers required to upgrade to the new units prior to delivery of the new units - that doesn't make sense and also agree on having the unit current for delivery of the units "

Jessica Gwynne 15.08.2019 11.02AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Assessor qualifications

"Currency of qualification is not addressed I can hold the unit for advanced resus which is current for 12 months but from this writing I just need it issued sometime in the past, not have it current. Also suggest to reinsert "or higher" qualification. "

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 01.33PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

2 Replies

"You need to have not only to have and hold higher Qauls but have a background or a history of preforming first aid and putting a band aid on your Child should not count!"

Wayne Christiansen 06.09.2019 04.41PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"i agree Wayne....my opinion is emergency services ( ideally paramedic ) and A&E Nurses minimum but this will never happen as there are to many trainers that "have seen one arrest " who teach first aid. Some are good but they still simply don't have the experience. I asked during an audit how can someone teach CPR who has never been directly involved in an arrest when they ( Regulating body ) wont accept a person teaching welding who has never welded in real life.......the auditors answer was you cant expect everyone who teaches CPR to have done it in real life --- WHY NOT !"

Adrian Date 09.09.2019 10.09AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

Equipment

"The AED Training device needs to be tightened up. Currently I am hearing from students that some RTO's are using A4 pictures of AED's instead of a physical training device. This suggested change should be: An AED Training Device that gives audible and visual instructions that need to be followed in line with the ARC Guidelines and Manufacturers instructions"

Peter Allan 09.08.2019 01.25PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

2 Replies

"I have LVR certifcate from a RTO that talked about a AED but no one use it ?"

Wayne Christiansen 06.09.2019 04.42PM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register

"Agree with Peter "

Janine Nicholas 21.09.2019 03.22AM

Reply

You need to login to post a reply. or Register