Outdoor Recreation Draft 2 Validation

Project Summary

Draft 2 SIS Outdoor Recreation training package products are now ready for industry validation and feedback. The validation period will seek to ensure that changes made in Draft 2 reflect feedback received during the consultation period in August and September 2018. 

At this stage we have had a tremendous amount of feedback from industry stakeholders and have made significant changes to qualifications and units of competency. 

We invite you to review the Summary of Changes Draft 1 to Draft 2 (click here) before you look at the Draft 2 material.  It outlines the key systemic issues that have been addressed in response to Draft 1 feedback.  We encourage those people engaged in the Outdoor Recreation sector to provide specific comments and feedback to guide the final draft.

To access the Draft 2 Validation Guide, which includes a detailed mapping table, please scroll to the bottom of this page where the Validation Guide can be downloaded.
Create a pdf of all documents in this project

Status - Open for Feedback

You will need to to provide feedback.
Need help? Visit our How To page for step by step instructions on how to leave feedback.

Webinars 

SkillsIQ will host a series of webinars to seek stakeholder input. To register your interest in attending a webinar, please click on the link below. 

Webinar 1:  Tuesday 5 March Time: 1:00PM AEDT - closed
Webinar 2: Thursday 7 March Time: 2:00PM AEDT - closed
Webinar 3: Monday 11 March Time 4:00PM AEDT - closed
Webinar 4: Tuesday 19 March Time 1:00PM AEDT - closed

For further information please contact liz.horne@skillsiq.org.au at SkillsIQ or call 0438 106 161.

Attachments

Outdoor Recreation Draft 2 Validation Guide

Recent Comments

Mark Gommers 20.03.2019

"Again we have a fundamental problem here.... ..... As it is currently printed in this draft unit, the knot categories are listed as follows: ......... | end of rope | knots tied on a bight | rope joining | tape | friction hitches | slide and grip hitches | .................................................................................................... .................. ........................................... SkillsIQ and the drafter of this unit seem to consistently get this subject wrong. .................. I am not sure who and how the editing process is managed - but it is full of mistakes (and at this late stage - it is very worrying). ........................... ....... ....................... ............................................ In detail: ................................ ........................ End of rope is incorrect. Should read; 'Fixed eye knots' .................... ........................ Knots tied on a bight is incorrect. Should read; 'Mid-line TIB (Tiable In the Bight) knots..... ........................ Rope joining is incorrect. Should read; 'End-to-End joining knots................... ........................ ...........................Tape is incorrect (this is actually an 'end-to-end' joining knot). Only difference is that it is tied using flat webbing instead of rope - although it can also be tied with rope. ......................... ........................ ............................Friction hitches is incorrect. Should read; 'Slide and grip hitches'. .................... ........................ Slide and grip hitches is correct (wow!). A double up with 'friction hitches'..................... ........................ Termination knots ....................................................................... ........................ . .................................... ......................Missed the category of 'Releasable load control hitches' (eg Munter hitch, Mariner hitch, etc). .................................................................... ............................. So there are six (6) different 'knot' categories, but not as originally drafted.................... ........................ ...................................///////////////////////////////////..................................... ............... The question for an assessor (and RTO) is; "How many different knots am I required to assess?" .................................. ................................................... Dylan's argument is technically incorrect - because of the six knot categories, there are in fact several different knot species that exist within each category. .................. So for example, in the category of 'Fixed eye knots'.... there is the F8, Double F8 (aka bunny ears), and several different inherently secure Bowlines........... ............................ In the category Mid-line TIB knots, there are 2 very common and useful knots (Butterfly and Clove hitch)............................. ..................................... In the category of 'end-to-end' joining knots, there are also several common and very useful knots (eg Double Fishermans, Offset overhand bend aka 'EDK', Tape/Water knot, etc). .......... ...................................... So the real question is; "How many knots from each of the six categories must a trainee demonstrate?" ..............................."

Outdoor Recreation Draft 2 Validation

SISORSC002_Perform vertical rescues_Draft 2

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Mark Gommers 20.03.2019

"Further response to Dylan Jones remark that a 'Prusik hitch' can mean any type of 'Slide and Grip hitch'. ................................................................... ................................................ Dylan's assertion and his knowledge is both wrong and fundamentally flawed.... ............................................................................... ............... ............................ ....................It is wrong in the sense that there are in fact a myriad of slide and grip hitches - more than a dozen different types. .................................... ................... It is also fundamentally flawed logic in the sense that an assessor (by definition) is required to exercise a degree of precision when planning and carrying out an assessment. ..................................... ..................................................... ................ Assessment can't be a random process. ...................... This would violate the rules of assessment as stipulated in the standards for RTOs (which is legislated). ...... .................................. It leaves the impression that Dylan Jones is unaware of the legislative effect of the Standards for RTOs (and the rules of assessment). .................... ............................................................ ................................ ......................... If an assessor states: "Tie me a 'slide and grip hitch' ... ............................. what does that mean exactly? A well prepared trainee would find him/herself questioning the assessor and asking for clarification........................................ .............................. Clearly and obviously, there are many different types of slide and grip hitches... for example: Klemheist, Bachmann, Marchard/French, Purcell, to quickly name a few. And then there is the actual 'Prusik' hitch itself - which was 'discovered' by Dr Karl Prusik and has a very specific geometric form and is found at #1763 in 'ABoK'. It is nominally tied as a 3 wrap symmetric form but can be tied in 2 wrap or even 4 wrap symmetric form. ................................................................. In contrast, the Klemheist (#1762) is asymmetric. .................................................... ............................ Each slide and grip hitch has its own performance characteristics - and will be suited to a particular application. ............................................ ............................................................. ....................................... Given these facts - it is hard to accept an argument that essentially points toward randomness rather than tightly controlled assessment outcomes. .............................................................. ................................... A previous analogy I had tendered was of a vehicle. ...................... If an assessor stated; "Demonstrate that you can drive a vehicle"........................... ...................................... A trainee would inquire; "What type of vehicle do you mean?" ..... ................................ (ie a vehicle could be; motorcycle, automatic car, manual car, truck, heavy rigid truck, articulated truck, etc.)."

Outdoor Recreation Draft 2 Validation

SISORSC002_Perform vertical rescues_Draft 2

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Mark Gommers 19.03.2019

"Dylan, I am surprised that you have attempted to raise this unique and non-standard form of climbing as a supporting argument. ................................ .......................................... In the first instance, in order to setup and run this type of activity, it requires a complex rigging process - in order that participants can climb under the safety of a top-managed belay system on each 'pitch'. ..... ..................................... The skill level for staff to attempt to do this goes beyond mere 'top rope climbing'. ............................... ............................. The staff member (ie Guide) - while at mid-height (half-way up the cliff) - is effectively in a multi-pitch situation should something go wrong............ ............................... And this is markedly different to a conventional top rope situation where there is always foot access to the top of the pitch. .................................. Whether bottom-managed belay or top-managed belay, the 'Guide' always has foot access. ... ............................ ............................................................ ....................In the example you gave, the 'Guide' does not have foot access to the top of each pitch. The only way to access the top of each 'pitch' is via abseil or via lead climbing in from the bottom (and then all the protection devices would need to be removed). So most convenient method is to abseil in and pre-rig all pitches............................ ............................ So Dylan, does this make sense to you?"

Outdoor Recreation Draft 2 Validation

SISOCLM009_Lead single pitch climbing activities natural surfaces, top rope climbing_Draft 2

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Mark Gommers 19.03.2019

"That's not a valid argument. ................. ..................... .......................................................... SIS10 TP title is 'Outdoor Recreation'. .............................................. ....................... ///////// .............................. Not all units are concerned with the notional concept of 'to lead'. Eg The vertical rescue units dont involve 'leading' per se. They involve a response to a patient (save a life). Same goes for units that involve rope rigging skills. ............. ....................... So for example, if I am in the process of rigging a belay while lead climbing a trad route, I am not performing the function of a Guide (or taking on leadership responsibilities) at that moment. I am simply undertaking a rigging role. ...................................... Only a defined % of the mix of units actually involve the act of taking on a leadership responsibility (ie the role of a 'Guide'). .................................................... ................................................................................. .............................................. In any case, this is still in DRAFT form; meaning that it is not set in stone (yet)."

Outdoor Recreation Draft 2 Validation

SISOCLM009_Lead single pitch climbing activities natural surfaces, top rope climbing_Draft 2

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Dylan Jones 19.03.2019

"While I agree with you in principle, it's not entirely true: there actually are some providers that deliver "top rope multi pitch climbing". It's quite convoluted and highly contextual, but it occurs nonetheless. "

Outdoor Recreation Draft 2 Validation

SISOCLM009_Lead single pitch climbing activities natural surfaces, top rope climbing_Draft 2

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